Nakano
I would like to take up topics such as “contemporary Japanese-ness” and “Western ballet and fashion history,” as well as “body and clothing.” Why did you think of a collaboration between ballet and CFCL clothing?

Takahashi
I was originally interested in dance itself. There were several reasons behind my choice of ballet, including the affinity with the silhouette of the POTTERY dresses that are iconic CFCL items and the stretchability of our knitwear that enables greater range in physical expression. However, the biggest factor was perhaps my interest in interacting with ballet culture.

In my high school days, I became fond of fashion and learned of the collaboration between a Japanese fashion brand and Pina Bausch. That was one of the reasons I began to watch dance and ballet performances. When I studied in London, I saw performances by various dance companies, including Forsythe and Rosas. Additionally, I heard that there were many collaborations between Japanese brands and dance companies in the 1990s, and that they created quite a stir worldwide. For these reasons, I felt a connection between dance and fashion.

Nakano
Even a little research reveals the deep connection between fashion and ballet in historical terms. Just looking at developments since the 20th century, Chanel’s ties with the Ballets Russes are well known, and Yves Saint Laurent created many costumes for Notre-Dame de Paris and other ballets. Pierre Cardin similarly made contemporary Russian ballet-type costumes for Anna Karenina and The Seagull. Christian Lacroix is another example. Right up to the present, there have been many cases in which ballet has, on the contrary, inspired fashion.

Takahashi
What I wanted to be conscious of in this project is that ballet, a performing art that symbolizes the West, and a fashion brand based in Japan will work together as a single project. It is not a matter of either a quote based on a simple admiration or a Western supremacy; the question is how to consider such a project from a Japanese perspective. At the same time, there would be no meaning in rehashing the accomplishments of precedent Japanese designers of the 1990s. I think we need a modern update, departing from the deconstructive thinking that arose back then in the post-modern context and the values of “East meets West.” That is why I want to reinterpret the relationship between ballet and clothing. Nevertheless, my own personal conclusion is that we may no longer need the ideas of West and East.

Nakano
Your generation was raised after this kind of thinking had basically taken hold. In the realm of culture as well, I think that a flat state with no hierarchy will become more necessary as a perspective in the future. The point is to apprehend things from a fair vantage, without condemning, adoring, or groveling.

Takahashi
The first time my father ate pizza and spaghetti was in 1970, when he was in junior high school and visited the World Exposition held in Osaka. I was surprised to hear that, but he was of that generation. In contrast, in the case of our generation and succeeding ones, Tokyo Disneyland was around before we were born, and the characters in video games, whether Mario or Zelda, were imbued with a Western outlook. And yet all of that was being exported and accepted as products of Japanese culture.
That’s why, when we ponder what makes something seem “Japanese” in the present age, I think it is difficult for the people of Japan, who did not experience colonization, to understand concepts like Negritude. But at the same time, I sense a kind of fusion of the mentality behind acceptance of the policies implemented by GHQ, the general headquarters of the occupying allied forces after the war, and the buildup of Japanese culture continuing from the Muromachi and Nara periods.

Nakano
The issue of cultural appropriation began to intensify mainly on social media around 2015. I have the impression that concern about it is basically found chiefly in countries that experienced colonial rule.
As for appropriation of Japanese culture, there have not been many cases causing the same level of reaction, and there also remains a certain insensitivity to it.

Takahashi
In the Meiji Restoration, modernization and westernization were virtually synonymous. When Japanese men put on suits and appeared to submit to domination by Western culture, they deftly built a relationship that could be likened to sitting around a table and sipping green tea poured from a Japanese-style pot. This is also clear from the publication of books about mingei, Japanese folk art, even during the war.

Nakano
Eclecticism may have been a form of resistance, Japanese-style. The strategy for survival did not include loud shouts of opposition.

Takahashi
To return to the subject of ballet, I find myself genuinely discovering the allure in the finely-honed beauty, jumping ability, and flexibility of the bodies of the dancers. I feel the extensibility of clothing expression through the body.
CFCL believes in the need to express the tone of the contemporary times. We use plus-size models and models that are older than those used by ordinary brands. Because we also offer childrenswear, CFCL’s models range in age from 2 to 80. Since the fabric stretches, our clothing can accommodate different body types and ages. While it is easy to publicize the inclusivity of our clothing, I also wanted to take up the challenge of expression with well-trained bodies.

Nakano
It is said that ballet originated from jumping and spinning, and CFCL’s clothing is also suitable for such action. Ballet took root as a culture of its own in the 17th century, which saw the birth of the form of classical ballet that continues to the present.

Takahashi
At the same time, classical ballet has been updated not only by Tchaikovsky’s three famous ballets, but also by the ballets scored by Stravinsky and Prokofiev, for example. Even if the costumes are the same and the tradition remains, ballet is evolving at an incredible speed.

Nakano
It was also right around the same time in the 17th century that the system of suits was born. After their completion, suits were deconstructed into a variety of forms. Classical ballet also reached technical peaks in poses such as spinning and jumping.

Takahashi
I am indeed interested in that area. While it is not a matter of a Western or Japanese-style character, I would like to learn about the context in my own way, from a Japanese perspective.
After a PR exhibition held in Japan the other day, some media reportedly pointed out that CFCL’s clothing did not project images of Japanese culture. The reality is that people are still looking for things such as details inspired by the kimono, Japanese-style dyeing, and obvious echoes like wabi-sabi. I would, of course, like to become a brand that represents Japan and challenge the world. But personally, it might be more gratifying for me if people would realize that CFCL was a Japanese-born brand only after looking into it.